Hi Terry, My name is Christophe Ney, I am one of the architect of Enhydra, XMLC, and the LEAS plateform. I have been working for Lutris since July 1998 and with Objectweb since August 1999. Before Lutris decision to stop LEAS, I was in charge of coordination between Lutris and Objectweb. I am now working closely with ObjectWeb. I would like to address your questions, because I have been pushing a lot for objectweb to sponsor enhydra.org and I am sure many of the enhydra contributors share the same interrogations. Let's first say, that a few months ago we were about to have objectweb.org mirror enhydra.org and vice-versa. If it had been the case, it would have been very natural for objectweb to continue running enhydra.org. Because Lutris financial situtation, it didn't happen and it looks artificial today. Regarding the initiative of moving Enhydra to SourceForge, I have talked on the phone to Alfred Madl who took this initiative and even with all the work he had done last week (I was impressed), he thought coming back was the best (I am sure he will comment my mail). I think what's important is not where the CVS tree is, it is that there is still a community who wants Enhydra to live! Unlike Lutris, Objectweb is not a private company. It is a consortium fully dedicated to open source and their main goal is to help the community to carry out ambitious projects such as the Enhydra ones. Objectweb is not going to make money out of it, it is like a big open R&D lab where anyone could help. There are already major industrials sponsoring this R&D group and Lutris was one of them. see http://www.objectweb.org/partners.html and an article I wrote for LEJ at http://www.lutris.com/company/jonasEASexternal.html Unfortunately all the work done by Lutris with ObjectWeb has not benefit to the Enhydra open source community. It has benefit to LEAS customers and to some extend to JOnAS since it was the EJB container of LEAS. A few weeks ago, Lutris engineers were working on integrating in LEAS more ObjectWeb software : Jonathan (RMI/IIOP support), JORAM (JMS/MOM), the JCA mplementation found in JORM. Today, there is a chance for some of this knowledge to be exploited in the open source community. This is why Objectweb and Enhydra community can benefit from each other. Regarding the plan of building a J2EE server: This is something we should discuss together. JOnAS has already a very good coverage of the J2EE features, and it has an industrial quality level. But, it is not the most popular open source J2EE server. Enhydra is not a J2EE server, but has a lot of quality and has an industrial quality too. I think the two communities can come up with very inovative ideas because we have different backgrounds and needs. Remember ObjectWeb main goal is to build open source middleware software that can be reused in various situations. If you doubt about it, look at the ObjectWeb projects on their home page and you will see by yourself. http://www.objectweb.org/index.html Regarding the asset question: Thanks to Lutris, ObjectWeb cost reduced to the cost of Domain Name transfert, the cost of the machine currently hosting Enhydra.org, and the cost of at least a month of an ISP service. Total a few thousand of dollars, probably less any man-power cost invested to move some projects to SourceForge. I hope this adress your first interrogations. Christophe Enhydra evangelist and member of the ObjectWeb consortium ;-) Note. Sorry for the poor english but it is past 2AM in France Christophe Ney Conseil en Systèmes Hypermédia Ingénierie du WEB et du Virtuel http://christophe.batisseurs.com mailto:christophe@batisseurs.com tel/fax +33 4 78 94 85 53 mobile +33 6 61 48 85 53 > -----Original Message----- > From: enhydra-admin@enhydra.org [mailto:enhydra-admin@enhydra.org]On > Behalf Of Terry Steichen > Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 10:32 PM > To: enhydra@enhydra.org > Subject: Re: Enhydra: ObjectWeb position about the sponsorship of > Enhydra.org > > > Alexandre, > > You mention 3 reasons, the first of which is to help ensure > the survival of > Enhydra. But as discussed, that was already being handled by > the folks who > moved Enhydra to SourceForge. Did you think that effort > would not work? > > Your second reason is that Enhydra can help make ObjectWeb > better. I'm not > surprised, but how does that benefit the Enhydra community? > > Your third reason is intriguing - your plan to make an > open-source J2EE > application server using Enhydra3 and Jonas. That's pretty > much what Lutris > originally tried to do and failed. Then they tried to do it > closed-source > and had no better luck. My questions on this point are two: > (1) what do you > know that Lutris didn't?, and (2) what does that have to do > with the Enhydra > community (and I apologize for keeping repeating that same question). > > From your statements, it sounds like your engineers, though > eager to learn, > are not currently that familiar with the overall Enhydra architecture. > However, the other folks who moved the code to SourceForge > are quite skilled > with it. Why subject the Enhydra community to such an (unnecessary??) > learning curve? > > I noticed that Lutris had already given approval to modify > the EPL to allow > hosting at SourceForge. It sounds like you assume that > approval to be now > null and void - is it? > > And, I don't want to get overly nosey, but are you doing this > out of a pure > sense of public spirit, or did this transfer to WebObjects > involve tangible > asset exchanges (such as $)? > > Regards, > > Terry > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "LEFEBVRE ALEXANDRE FTRD/DTL/GRE" > <alexandre.lefebvre@rd.francetelecom.com> > To: <enhydra@enhydra.org>; <enhydra-announce@enhydra.org>; > <xmlc@enhydra.org>; <barracuda@enhydra.org>; <dods@enhydra.org>; > <kelp@enhydra.org>; <me@enhydra.org>; <mapper@enhydra.org>; > <zeus@enhydra.org>; <webdocwf-enhydra@lists.sourceforge.net> > Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 10:09 AM > Subject: Re: Enhydra: ObjectWeb position about the sponsorship of > Enhydra.org > > > > Hi Terry, > > > > your question is natural, and my message did not explain > the motivations > > behind the ObjectWeb decision. > > > > I see three main motivations for our offer to support the > Enhydra.org > > infrastructure. > > > > - The first reason is "emotional". > > ObjectWeb has had a cooperation with Lutris around Enhydra (and > > then LEAS) since 1999. We feel that it would be a shame to see the > > Enhydra.org community be dislocated, and thus our offer to > take over the > > > > infrastructure. > > > > - The second reason is complementarity between our two communities. > > Enhydra hosts a number of projects which are very complementary > > to the ObjectWeb projects. For example, the recent Enhydra > projects in > > the domain of embedded software are very much in one of the > directions > > that ObjectWeb is considering. In terms of application > server, ObjectWeb > > does not have the presentation layer that Enhydra 3 > realizes. ObjectWeb > > is a user of Zeus. It could make sense to see what DODS and the > > ObjectWeb JORM project could share in terms of persistence. > > These are only examples. > > It thus makes sense that ObjectWeb sponsors Enhydra projects since > > our two offers are complementary. > > > > I do believe that some ObjectWeb developers will become > more involved, > > as developers, in Enhydra projects. > > > > - The third reason is the disappearance of LEAS. > > The recent stop of LEAS (Lutris' commercial J2EE platform) is > > an opportunity to build an open source J2EE platform based on > > Enhydra 3 and the JOnAS EJB server (remember that JOnAS used to be > > embedded in LEAS). > > This could offer previous LEAS users a valuable alternative to LEAS. > > > > We are aware of the recent effort to move projects to > > SourceForge, and are sorry that we could not react faster to prevent > > this > > move. Regarding the move to SourceForge, and after > discussion with Paul > > Morgan > > and some of the project leaders, the position is that it > makes sense to > > move > > back to Enhydra.org in order to maintain the coherence of > the community > > around Enhydra. Moreover, the current position of SourceForge is > > somewhat > > unstable. > > > > We're hoping that projects which had already moved to SourceForge > > would be ready to move back to Enhydra.org. > > > > I hope that this message will answer your concerns. > > > > Do not hesitate to get back to me for any question you may have. > > > > Regards, > > > > alex > > > Terry Steichen wrote: > > > > > > Hi Alexandre, > > > > > > I have been participating in the Enhydra community for > over 3 years, > > so I've > > > seen a lot of changes. This one puzzles me a bit. You > say you are > > taking > > > over sponsorship of Enhydra.org, presumably with Lutris' blessing. > > You > > > don't want to impose anything on us - that's good. But, > ahem.., I'm > > not > > > clear what you do want to do. What is the purpose of > this transfer > > and more > > > pointedly, what does ObjectWeb get out of it? > > > > > > Do you have developers that use and understand Enhydra and related > > > architectures, so they could contribute meaningfully to discussion > > groups? > > > > > > Moreover, several long-standing members of the Enhydra > community have > > (I > > > think) already gone to a lot of effort to get the stuff hosted on > > > SourceForge (with Lutris' blessing too, I think). Does > this duplicate > > that > > > effort or what? > > > > > > I'm not trying to give you a hard time, I'm just not sure > what's going > > on. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Terry > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "LEFEBVRE ALEXANDRE FTRD/DTL/GRE" > > > <alexandre.lefebvre@rd.francetelecom.com> > > > To: <enhydra@enhydra.org>; <enhydra-announce@enhydra.org>; > > > <xmlc@enhydra.org>; <barracuda@enhydra.org>; <dods@enhydra.org>; > > > <kelp@enhydra.org>; <me@enhydra.org>; <mapper@enhydra.org>; > > > <zeus@enhydra.org>; <webdocwf-enhydra@lists.sourceforge.net> > > > Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 12:21 PM > > > Subject: Enhydra: ObjectWeb position about the sponsorship of > > Enhydra.org > > > > > > > Dear Enhydra community, > > > > > > > > Following the ObjectWeb proposal to take over sponsorship of > > > > Enhydra.org we, at ObjectWeb, would like to give you some > > explanations > > > > about the intentions behind our offer. > > > > > > > > ObjectWeb proposes to provide hosting to the Enhydra > community in > > > > order to allow the seamless continuation of Enhydra.org > as an Open > > > > Source community. We do not want to impose anything on > you guys. We > > > > hope that the Enhydra community will become as open as > possible, and > > > > we think that the fact that we are another open Open Source > > community > > > > provide some guarantee on that. > > > > > > > > ObjectWeb does not intend to take over the management > of projects, > > but > > > > just to maintain the infrastructure. We hope that most project > > leaders > > > > will accept to continue their very valuable work on > Enhydra.org. For > > > > us, each project leader is fully responsible of his/her project > > > > (project web pages, mailing lists, versioning policy, > deciding who > > has > > > > write rights on cvs, etc.). For those projects for > which there is no > > > > project leader any more, we encourage volonteers to > take the lead. > > > > > > > > We have asked Christophe Ney, one of the Enhydra architect and > > > > formerly in charge of the coordination between Lutris > and ObjectWeb, > > > > to help us coordinating the restart of Enhydra projects. > > > > > > > > It may be useful to formalize somewhat the way the > Enhydra community > > > > operates, and to have global coordination structure, > but again it is > > > > up to the Enhydra community to decide. > > > > > > > > Please do not hesitate to contact us (mailto:contact@objectweb.org) > to > > > discuss or clarify anything. > > > > > > More information about ObjectWeb and the way it operates can be > found > > > at: http://www.objectweb.org/consortium/index.jsp > > > > > > -- > > > Alexandre Lefebvre, R&D Engineer > > > France Telecom R&D - DTL/ASR > > > 28 chemin du Vieux Chene - B.P. 98 > > > 38243 Meylan CEDEX - France > > > phone: +33 4 76 76 45 63 - fax: +33 4 76 76 45 57 > > > email: alexandre.lefebvre@rd.francetelecom.com > > > email: alefebvr@acm.org > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Enhydra mailing list > > > Enhydra@enhydra.org > > > http://www.enhydra.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/enhydra > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Enhydra mailing list > > Enhydra@enhydra.org > > http://www.enhydra.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/enhydra > _______________________________________________ > Enhydra mailing list > Enhydra@enhydra.org > http://www.enhydra.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/enhydra _______________________________________________ Enhydra mailing list Enhydra@enhydra.org http://www.enhydra.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/enhydra |